We knew Joba was going to be tough, and he was. He seemed to be very hittable on video but we just didn’t get much done with him. Well, outside Doumit and Wilson, that is.
The biggest story of the day to me was Zach Duke, who gave up just three earned runs in 5 frames. And if you watched the game, you know at least one more of those might have been prevented had Wilson charged Abreu’s first inning groundball that went for an infield hit. And to be real honest, if we had a true centerfielder, at least one of Jeter’s flyballs over McLouth’s head would have been an out and they might have scored just one run.
I mean, is that weak or what? If I’m Captain Jeter, I tell the other gyrls in the clubhouse to go bury their head in the sand for such a poor showing against Duke.
–
TJ Beam. I mentioned June 16th the Pirates needed to consider bringing him up because of the work he had done in Indy. I also mentioned that I hadn’t seen him pitch. Well, I’ve seen him pitch now and, even though the sample size is ridiculously small, I’ve seen enough. His fastball is straighter than Matt Capps and lacks deception to boot. Now I don’t doubt Jeff Andrews might be able to get a little more cut/tail/sink on this kid’s heater, but he’ll never fool anyone with his arm slot so he’s taking up space on the roster to me.
But I do think his ceiling is higher than Sean Burnett’s, for whatever that’s worth.
And I think this also goes to show us all how ridiculous small sample MLE’s (major league equivalent stats) are in the farm anymore. When there was a lot of talent in the International League you could reasonably count on MLE’s, but now that the shelf is bare, MLE’s are generally worthless. Maybe we need to consider getting back in the PCL? Hello Nashville… when are you building that stadium???
–
Denny Bautista. This cat has a live arm that GM’s love to drool over. Unfortunately, he’s let all five GM’s down over the years.
I can see Huntington’s desire to pick up some bullpen help but let’s be serious here, why Denny Bautista? And why trade for him since he was DFA’d? I mean, trading a 23 year old live arm in Kyle Pearson who can’t find the plate for a 27 year old live arm who can’t find the plate just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. If we need to focus on someone throwing strikes, why not stick with youth? I’m sure MLB would give the Pirates a year or two more of control since he was hurt – so why give up on the kid?
And did we put a claim in on Kiki Calero, potential surgery need or not?
Well back to Bautista. When he throws strikes, he’s been getting outs. But here’s something about Bautista you won’t read in the local media tonight. You see, on May 2cd the Tigers hung Bautista out to lunch. He threw a 35 pitch inning and still couldn’t get out of his mess so they took him out.
The next day he was put on the DL with right shoulder tendinitis.
From March 31st to May 2cd, Bautista was throwing some major heat – he touched 99 mph once, 98 nine times, and had thrown 42% of nearly 250 pitches 94 mph or or higher.
Since May 2cd he’s thrown just 4 of 96 pitches (4%) 94 or higher. How do you spell “that’s two huge red flags Neal baby”?
Now I’ll agree that the reduction of speed on his fastball since that 35 pitch outing has put him in the zone more, and I’ll also agree that his hit rate allowed in that smaller sample has been very good (something the Pirates probably keyed in on), but the two teams that he’s pitched against since then (Indians and Dodgers) were sitting on his offspeed stuff and not his fastball I assume because they were easier to see.
Considering Bautista’s success has pretty much come when he worked as a late inning setup type guy, and now Huntington plans to use him in middle relief, throw in the 35 pitch inning and now just coming off the DL with a long history of health and makeup problems, I just don’t get this signing at all.
I think Eddie Epstein must have been out to dinner when Neal called on this deal.
Two thumbs down. Oh, he’ll have some good outings here and there, but overall…
Pearson wasn’t exactly an ace in hiding, but he’s only three years removed from arm problems and really hasn’t had the benefit of working with a development team that had a care or concern. Throw in the fact he’s shown a propensity to be a reverse-righty (get right hand batters out), has a live arm, and still only 23, it seems to me if we were going to spend time developing it would be with kids like him, not trying to nurse Denny Bautista to throw strikes.
This is sort of like the Tyler Yates deal. We sent youth out the door in Todd Redmond (now 7-2 in 2A in the Southern League with the Braves) for Tyler Yates who can’t get a batter out away from PNC and walks more than he strikes out. Ok, some fans said Redmond was another Josh Fogg. But we’d be so lucky, considering Fogg was the last starter that had back-to-back winning seasons in Pittsburgh.
Evidently Huntington must think there is a window of opportunity developing in the next three years the way he’s throwing away youth for broken down saddle horses. Damn if I see it.
* Jake scratches his head *
I’ll make everyone a bet that Bautista hits the DL before August 15th, if he’s even with us that long. Just a wild guess.
–
Shawn Chacon? Puh-lease.
–
A couple of questions floating through the comment sections:
“Jake, you’ve been crying for this team to shut down Gorzo for over a year now. 2/5’s of their starting rotation is injured at this point. Who exactly are they going to run out there if Gorzo is shut down, too? …
What do you suggest this team does?”
Lose 70 of the next 90 games and get the #1 pick in the draft next year instead of pretending to be something we’re not year-after-year-after-year-after-year.
“It doesn’t seem to me that Gorzy is hurt. He’s just all over the place…”
Fatigued arms do that to you.
“right now Steve Pearce is as hot as a pistol in his last 10 games he his batting .316 with 4 home runs and 10 rbis.”
Yeah, I mentioned that we would probably see Pearce take off once he saw Morgan get called up. Sure enough, look at him go. But the pitching in that league is pretty thin right now too. See above about MLE’s.
“How about that pitcher for Fresno State tonight, Justin [Wilson]. The big lefty pitched a hell of a game. Didn’t the buccos draft him? Were we able to sign him yet? Now this is the first time I have seen him play, but based on that performance against Georgia who has a great team, I could definitely see this kid in the rotation a couple years down the road, your thoughts Jake?”
He pitched one hell of a game against a very, very good hitting club. Agreed.
All we can do is pray the multiple high pitch counts this season don’t take him out like Scheppers (123 on 4/11; 130 on 5/9; 127 on 6/25… insert Brad Lincoln’s resume here too). Oh, and he stays off the Milky Way bars and learns how to condition his body, learns how to throw more strikes (see Redmond, Yates, Bautista, and Pearson, for examples), and develops a plus third pitch, sure – I think he might end up in the rotation one day.
But I’m not counting on it with his stuff and our current development staff. Instead, I bet we see him sent out the door to a large market club in 2012 for a relief pitcher who throws 96 with straight heat but can’t find the strike zone.
Well maybe not, Huntington will probably be long gone by then.
Related posts:
Its too bad Huntington threw away Torres this winter (to a division rival on top of that) or he might not have to be throwing away youth for marginal bullpen help.
Im sure everyone will be in an uproar over losing kyle pearson (23 years old with a 6.00+ era between single A and AA.) When that starts happening make sure you mention if you even heard of him before any of this, or have seen him pitch in person. I like the move. , if you gave me the choice of A) a 27 year old, with live arm that can hit 99, with control issues, and has already made it to the bigs, VS. B) a 23 year old, that his low 90\’s, a decent slider, with control issues but can\’t succeed even in A-AA. I would take A every time. I like the fact that huntington is taking risks on guys that can throw heat, if this was a littlefield deal we would be getting back a righty that throws 87-89 and is probably making $10 mil.
Justin Wilson = John Grabow
I would have to agree with jake on this trade we already have too many pitchers with control issues to go give up a young kid that is still developing for another pitcher that cant hit the strikzone are minor league teams is already pretty bare as far as talent goes in the first place.
An interesting trade. Not a surprising response from you. Yates-Redmond you hated. This has worked out better then expected for the team huh? The team needs a guy that can throw in that 5-7 inning area. Osoria has proven when he is overused he becomes a A pitcher whose stuff goes flat. Against a good team he is toast. They have nothing ready at AAA. Bautista has shown some flashes so I see why NH tooks a shot at this. Pearson to me is another guy that is career minor league type. What\’s this his 5th year in the system? He is not having all that much success. To me it\’s one of those deals if it works out great. If it doesn\’t oh well…. I like the fact he is trying to help the team our now. Not like the past regime..
And yet, another pitcher with red flags. Hey Jake, I’m starting to think your favorite color is red….
I guess Denny B couldn\’t do no worse than Osaria, Burnett, and the Indy pitcher of the week but I wish Neal could\’ve found a decent starter out there. Guess there wasn\’t any.
Congrats to the Fresno St. Bulldogs for that improbable run to the title.
Hopefully Scheppers and Wilson\’s title experience rubs off on the future Bucs.
hal said: “Im sure everyone will be in an uproar over losing kyle pearson (23 years old with a 6.00+ era between single A and AA.) When that starts happening make sure you mention if you even heard of him before any of this, or have seen him pitch in person.”
I have seen Pearson and he is exactly the type of player that the Pirates need to spend time developing.
You are looking at media reports of a 6+ ERA and not how he got the 6 ERA. He was prematurely bumped (another way to say it, given a golden opportunity a bit earlier than his development suggested he was ready for) from Lynchburg to Altoona when they needed relief help (Antelo was put on DL) and then had to make four of his five appearances against two of the best teams in AA.
Now take that in – moved from h1A to AA and then asked to start off throwing against the two best teams. Sure, he got spanked in his first three times out against Akron and Harrisburg (6 IP, 12 H, 7 ER).
But guess what – the next game he shut out Akron’s high-powered offense (did you see that in the media?) and the next game allowed 1 hit in an inning and two-thirds, albeit he did walk 4. Also before his callup he was in a groove – he had a 0.00 ERA through eight games with 4 saves, walked just 3, struckout 11, and batters were hitting just a buck sixty-seven off him.
Now if the Pirates are going to ask these kids to take a few weeks off, send them to their death a level up because they don’t have proper staffing and then refuse to let the kids even take root before hammering him back down, then we’re doing no better developing than Dave Littlefield did because, not only does it blow the kids confidence, it sends the kid’s development downhill. In Pearson’s case, he’s a kid who needed to feel confident to succeed and we robbed him of that. Hopefully he’ll get it in his new organization after he settles in.
Billy – Bautista is as advertised, a live arm with high upside but clubs with much better development staff and pitching coaches than we have couldn’t tap into it. Huntington isn’t going to get the Calero’s that are DFA’d because we don’t have depth to trade from. Plus, he’s trying to appease the Nutting/Coonelly/fan artificially inflated drive for .500 while covering his butt (losing Torres). But again I ask, just where are we going picking up these three year risky relief pitchers while giving away youth, even if marginal youth? After all, the difference between getting the job done and not is developing all the marginal talent each team drafts.
jake,
Im sorry no one is apparently allowed to disagree with you. But my point is i would take my chances on the high risk / high reward on a guy with a power arm, that basically doesnt exist in th pirates system. I have seen pearson pitch, and as you described it in the above statement \
(got cut off)
…..”marginal youth” fits pretty well. Steak dinner from me to you, if kyle pearson ever becomes relevant conversation again.
Pirates need middle relief right now. Pearson has been a nonfactor, but may someday develop. A good move. If Bautista doesn\’t pan out, on the surface it appears not much is lost. Only thing I see that is not good, is that pitchers with the heat Bautista has normally rack up Ks. So far, he has not shown the ability to do that.
Jake, picking Kiko ought to be something the Bucs should do. There was another pitcher DFA\’d by the Mets IIRC who used to pitch for the Brewers. Not great, but a step up from what we\’re seeing out of the bullpen. LaTroy Hawkins can reportedly be had for a song and has pitched well in the NL in the past, as recently as last season. The Pirates can beef up the pen for what looks like little or nothing. Starting pitching is another matter. We need some help there, immediately.
Jake, in all fairness, Pearson was lousy when he was in A ball. 25 baserunners in 13 innings? An ERA of 6.75? So, the promotion wasn\’t the reason for his high ERA.
You are dead right, though, about the question of why in the world they would promote a guy like that to AA. Could not have done his confidence any good at all.
Snell was finally put on the DL. We might as well shut him down for th rest of the season and hope he rebounds next year. This could also give us an extended look at Jimmy Barthemiar.
Hal I know your comments want directed towards me but i would like say something just to put my 2 cents in the conversation I dont see why we trade away a young decent arm when our system is so depleted we only have a hand full of true prospects and pretty much 0 pitching prospects minus Moskos and Lincoln. So why not hang on to 23 year old kid with a live arm and how long have jvb and bullington been in our system 6 or 7 years and we never shipped them out and they never did amount to nothing. And Bautista does trow the heat but he has more walks this year than strikeouts 14/10. Not trying to argue hal just statin my opinion.
hal, nichol, others: little known rumor about Pearson that I heard – he was signed, had arm trouble, decided against surgery, came back and didn’t throw well. He’s a kid who has really only seen two solid years of feeling good about his arm and, even then may still not be 100%.
I agree with chris – a smaller market club can’t throw even marginal arms out the window. It’s the clubs job to develop them into ball players as they become men. The point isn’t whether Pearson or Redmond were worth it because even the Pirates didn’t know that yet – they could only guess. Educated guess, sure, but still a guess.
There could be other reasons Huntington picked up Bautista like flipping him come July. Doubtful, but possible. I believe it’s the Pirates intention to stretch Bautista out and put him in the rotation as Gorzy, Snell, and possibly others get shut down. We’ll see. If that’s the case, then I’m 100% with the Pirates on this move.
chris,
i wasnt pointing to your comment at all. everyone is entitled to their opinion. as with the yates/redmond trade, there was this outrage by some people. My point was that considering the two players that are being dealt with, as was the case in the yates/redmond trade, that really it isnt a big deal. If bautista was 30+, then i have an issue with the deal. but he is 27 and is in the MLB. Pearson is younger, but i would rather take my chance with a guy that already has been to the bigs, than a marginal player, who is still years down the road from making the big club. I guess my overall point in the begining was that deals like this arent what ruins franchises, deals like the aramis r. trade do, and even if this one works out or is a total bust, in reality, it\’s really not going to make a huge dent either way.
Jake,
I think stretching bautista out is a great call. since he is a guy that has trouble throwing strikes, maybe starting could be the answer. Instead of throwing all-out for 1 to 2 innings with maximum intensity and effort, he might tone things down in order to last longer into ball games if he is starting, thus possibly improving his command.
Chris – you answered your own question. Guys like JVB, Burnett, and Bullington were all held onto and have thus far failed to reach their potential. Would it have been wise to trade one or all of these guys before they broke down? Absolutely. It is a complete unknown, but Bautista is already at the highest level. His future ability is unclear, but clearer than Pearson. I agree with Jake that Bautista might be flipped as well as Yates. Neal will have the built in excuse that he tried to build this club up to challenge .500 or the wildcard. If/When they start falling further back the trading will begin. Hopefully Neal has gambles correctly and Yates and Bautista will bring back more than they cost.
bautista is only 27 and he doesnt even get salary arbitration until 2010…i dont understand how this could be viewed as a bad deal??…we control his rights until what 2012 or 2013?, he is a power arm with a good breaking ball, and as you said he could be stretched out to a starter…and as you say pearson is a hurt, marginal pitcher struggling in single A…seems pretty low risk to me
- Jake -
Whatever you say about Bautista, but I don’t see how this move hurts this team. It’s loud and clear Huntington covets power arms. And this guy has a power arm. Giving up an AA arm for some who is still under control shouldn’t be a big deal. They are taking a chance, but it could pay off.
I just find it funny how you are so quick to label ALL pitchers as ready to have their arm fall off. It’s really amusing.
i just saw something on the Hickory Crawdads websit 2 of our draft picks this year have been promoted to hickory from state college Jordy Mercer and Matt Houge. Thats cool