The story of the hour seems to be a Post-Gazette editorial written as an open letter to Bob Nutting calling for him to sell the franchise. It was signed: “Sincerely, More than a few Pirates fans”
Dear Post-Gazette,
That was 100% bullshit.
Sincerely,
More than a few Post-Gazette readersPS: why didn’t you have “We luv Mario and Ron” t-shirts on sale next to the article for us to buy? You’re slipping!
I could go on a 500 word rant about why the piece was ridiculous and meaningless but I hope I’ve opened your senses enough over the years here to figure it out on your own.
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Mike in Pittsburgh asks: if we don’t have any pitching worth a damn in Pittsburgh right now, and we have exactly one impact bat in our entire system in Pedro Alvarez, how can we possibly ever compete if the Nuttings won’t pony up for elite free agent talent?
Good question.
It all begins with pitching so let’s take a look at our waves in the minors. Realize that some of these players will be developed enough to come up earlier than might be listed below, but I’m focusing more on when the group will be out of their sophomore year and starting to put it all together.
In the first wave we have Brad Lincoln, Tim Alderson, and Donnie Veal, and a little further off we have Rudy Owens, Justin Wilson, and Jeffery Locke. I think it’s fair to say none of those individuals are elite talent and also fair to say none of them project as top of the order guys. So we have another wave of middle of the order type guys who are going to pitch to contact resulting in a significant need for strong defense behind them. This wave could start to be available to Pittsburgh by 2011 but can’t be counted on as a jelled group until 2014 at the earliest.
The second wave is a little more promising with Bryan Morris, Matt McSwain, and Hunter Strickland, and late in the wave we have Quinton Miller, Victor Black, and Jeffery Inman. Only Morris has the stuff to be an elite talent but even that has fallen off the shelf the last two years. Miller has potential top of the order stuff but has a long way to develop before I’d be willing to tag him with that honor. This wave could start impacting Pittsburgh by 2014 but really can’t be counted on as a group until 2018 or later.
Then way off in the horizon is the third wave consisting of guys like Brooks Pounders, Zack Von Rosenberg, Colton Cain, and Trent Stevenson. These guys are light years away from Pittsburgh and can’t be counted on as a group to impact Pittsburgh until 2022.
Clearly, there is very little pitching talent available in our system through 2017 until the second wave has taken root so without impact bats added along the way, there isn’t anywhere near as much hope on the horizon as the fans seem to think there is. Instead, we’ll continue to talk about the ones that got away much like with Weiters.. in 2014 we’ll be talking about Sano, in 2016 we’ll be talking about Chapman, and so on and so forth. Adding to this misery is the fact we’re only drafting once in the first 50 – 60 picks and that isn’t going to change anytime soon either.
On the offensive side we have McCutchen who will be around another five years and Pedro who will be here for six. Tabata is a longshot to become anything but average, Tony Sanchez joins him in the longshot offensive realm, and after these guys there are so many questions it isn’t even funny as it’s impossible to put adequate waves together with all the holes we have.
Bob Nutting needs to add about $50M per year in free agent talent to the 2012 Bucs for us to have a prayer considering the buildup of offensive talent in the other NLCD farm systems. That won’t happen unless the union and MLB force it down the Nuttings throat.
It’s a sad situation folks. Dream all you want but we’re really no better off today than we were four years ago except that we have a tick more depth in the system, albeit it is all unproven and non-elite talent.
I ask you, what good is that?
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Edit 9:50 PM Thursday night: I’m sitting here packing and realized I forgot to mention I won’t be posting again until Monday night after the Saints kick some Colts butt!
That’s a lot different sort of message then the one you gave us during the summer about how the franchise was finally on the write track (right after we traded Jack Wilson) and how you could stop blogging, etc., etc. I sometimes do not get your huge swings (like when you quit twice, and other things). I like the blog, but sometimes it seems like your one thing and a few days later its the end of the Pirates franchise.
> huge swings (like when you quit twice)
I never quit – I sold my MLBlogs site and then sold Bucco Blog — both were done with the intention of taking the blog to the next level. But if you go to the archives page you’ll see I’ve been blogging near continuously since 2006.
> but sometimes it seems like your one thing and a few days later its the end of the Pirates franchise.
there’s only one mission here – to get rid of the Beverly Hillbillies clones. Period. End of story.
http://newbucs.com/2009/07/29/rebirth-of-the-pittsburgh-pirates-mission-complete/
-look I know how to use an archive…
really? you didnt say here “the mission was complete and there is no need for buccoblog anymore?” or did you also forget one/two days later when you did the Rays blog joke? Or was it the post a day later saying you needed a break?
or the time two years ago when you said you had to quit because of some dude threatening you in the Pirates office or something?
you never quit? I don’t care that you do, but from mission complete to the “What the F!?” article two days later? All I am saying is that sometimes your blog seems to take huge swings into negativity.
> really? you didnt say here “the mission was complete and there is no need for buccoblog anymore
yep, sure did.. one night on a binge. 24 hours later the post was changed to the afterbirth of the Pittsburgh Pirates.
> or the time two years ago when you said you had to quit because of some dude threatening you in the Pirates office
Vuch was climbing down my throat.
> you never quit? All I am saying is that sometimes your blog seems to take huge swings into negativity.
LOL.. yeah, trying to post daily about pathetic losers does that to you.
Crystal Ball sometimes sends mixed messages. This is a blog. He can change his mind if he wants. But i can certainly understand the frustration reading this blog as a Pirates Fan. One thing Jake has learned from Bob Nutting. Bad Press “angry post” are better than no post.I dont see him as a Fan of the club.He’s a critic.
You finally spilled the beans! So it was Pete Vuckovich who got your goat? I would have never guessed him.
2022?????
haha.. my wave plan actually says 2020 but I decided to add two more years to allow the kids 7 full years in the farm to develop and four years of experience under their belt before making a significant impact. If they ever do.
So, you don’t expect guys to be “impact” players (assuming they develop) until they are 30?
I think we contend much earlier than twelve years from now. The players who accepted losing are gone, and you didn’t comment on the division talent. I’m not impressed with any team in the NL Central, so that gives the Bucco’s an opportunity in the next couple years to start winning.
Jake,
So we like Nutting now? Got it.
I had absolutely no problem with that editorial. Selling the team is what is best for Pittsburgh right now. We need somebody with deep pockets and a desire to win.
> So we like Nutting now? Got it.
hell NO. I had no problem with the idea, I just have a problem with the people that wrote it considering they halped to create the beast we have. Plus, why didn’t they step up and tell Nutting to sell when Greenberg and his deep pockets wanted to buy? I’d rather have Greenberg than Burke. All. Day. Long.
Got to say that I hope you are wrong. If I have to wait until 2022 to see a contending Pirates team, I may lose it.
Keep dreaming Jake, Saints have as much of a chance as the Pirates in 2010.
you know you are right Brett, and more than half the world sides with you, but my money is riding on the Saints.
McSwain=Org filler not a prospect.
I’ll admit I’m a sucker for a guy who learns to pitch and relies on it since he doesn’t have plus stuff. See the Bucs winningest pitcher at PNC (Fogg, I believe). But if Matt is back throwing 94+ plus as I think he is, he has a chance at remaining as a solid #4 starter IF, and I repeat, IF Stark allows him to continue in that role. Since he’s a DL guy, we’ll most likely see him thrown in the pen or traded as a forgotten man. See Todd Redmond.
So why no love for Ohlendorff?
Jake your waves dont include fast tracking players or future drafts. Now I know our track record draftwise has been rather horrid, but theres always an exception like a diamond in the rough…. I also know those dont come around too often either but one can still hope. Also pitchers seem to be rather unpredictable in the minors– case and point Brad Lincoln. I think everyone was ready to ride him off due to his injuries and not performing well, but last year he had a solid season and is now considered a middle of the rotation guy. Prospects are really unpredictable, especially all of those highschool arms we drafted. Il be optimistic and hope that some of them turn out to be solid arms and maybe one of them as a front of the rotation guy.
Also I wanted to point out that even though the Buccos are spending lame duck money on lame duck players, they appear to be trying to fix the short term plan. Il be the first to say that I was so angered by losing out on Sano but the fact of the matter is teams get outbid on players all the time. I know we mishandled that whole situation so terribly, but I am mildly encouraged that they even went after him that consitantly.
Dont get me wrong, I desparately want Nutting gone, but as a fan Im going to continue to hope “the plan” works out, that or the Buccos have a horendeous season so much that the MLB literally has to step in and force Nutting to make waves.
38-34 Colts win a shoot out!
The Nuttings only plan is to keep putting more money into his pocket and into seven springs.
Jake,
very depressing post…But it is the sad truth…
btw…Colts will win…AFC has won 6 of last 8…7 of 9 after sunday night
Wow! I was actually enjoying your recent positive posts. Will the real Jake please stand up? You have bigger mood swings than a 16 year old girl going through puberty!!!
I like the direction the Pirates are headed and it isn’t all that bad. Let’s think about this for a minute. Pitching is one of the hardest positions to predict. Very rarely is there a sure thing can’t miss pitching project, correct?
Our staff is loaded with #3 and #4 starters, this year and the next 5 years. Look at what teams do who are in the hunt come August and September. They go out and give up some prospects for an ace like Cliff Lee or CC Sabathia. They go find that ace workhorse to carry them to the playoffs (remember the Brewers with CC?)
That’s the position I see the Pirates in. Now, I know the Nuttings don’t have a history of signing free agents or being sellers during the trade deadline. But, they never had a reason to.
I know there are hundreds, even thousands of fans that moan about bringing in free agents, but if the core isn’t there, why bother? The Mets try it every year and every year they miss the playoffs.
I’m a strong believer that good teams are built within and free agents or the trading deadline, bring in players to take them over the top.
The Pirates just aren’t there yet. When, or if Cutch, Alvarez, Tabata, Lincoln, Alderson, and that group of players mold and play well together, there is a good chance they bring in an ace through trade or free agency to take them to that next level. I know Nutting has to prove it, but let’s see what he does when this team is close to competing.
> Our staff is loaded with #3 and #4 starters, this year and the next 5 years. Look at what teams do who are in the hunt come August and September. They go out and give up some prospects for an ace like Cliff Lee or CC Sabathia. They go find that ace workhorse to carry them to the playoffs (remember the Brewers with CC?)
apologist alert!
I say borderline apologist… I think theres just a hint of an optimisitic view in there. I gaurentee that Nutting will never blow his load on getting a top of the line rental pitcher.
welcome back Mark in Dallas, aka Billy..
keep drinking that kool aid