At least two of the beat writers covering the Pirates sounded off on their concern about Monday’s home plate umpire Justin Vogel saying things like the Phils brought their own umps, that the Pirates are giving the ump dirty looks, or that Doc Halladay had a generous zone, or that he was talking too much to Ryan Doumit. That surprised me because in their game recaps, not one of them talked about the real reasons we stunk up the joint and lost.
One, we couldn’t hit the advanced pitching thrown at us, two, we were horrid on defense.
Bucs up by one in the fourth when we pick up Dejan’s game summary:
1:54: A little trouble for Duke in the fourth, runners at the corners with one out and Ben Francisco up.
1:57: And he walks the bases loaded for John Mayberry Jr.
2:01: Sac fly, and that’s it for Duke.
Sac fly is correct but just missed a grand slam by five feet might be a better call. Anyway, the game is tied 1-1 in the fifth when we pick up Dejan’s call again:
2:10: Halladay is great and all, but he’s getting one heck of a strike zone to work with, and it’s starting to visibly tick off some of the Pirates. No one’s going to do something dumb like arguing in a spring game, but Justin Vogel — a Class AAA umpire — is getting some really dirty looks. Halladay ends his fourth by getting Milledge to swing through strike three, but only after an absurd called strike made the count 0-2.
If you aren’t professional enough to contain your dirty looks at the home plate umpire, then you should step in the box expecting to get an “absurd called strike” once in a while. Don’t you think? I’ve talked extensively over the years here about this problem.. such a slight margin of error dictates wins and losses in this game anymore that we can’t afford unprofessional showboating by the players. If the zone is bad, the manager gets off his duff and complains but our youth need to be consummate pros in the box to gain respect. I’m telling you once again, we lost too many games the last few years from squeezed zones and poor calls because of our lack of professionalism.
Then this catastrophe:
2:23: A trying inning for Meek, in the sense that his stuff seemed good, but you could see he allowed a balk call to get to him. First, he was arguing with Vogel, then raising his head in disgust after not getting another call, then Wilson Valdez doubled for one run, and Howard singled for another. Still just two outs. Phillies, 3-1.
What the f***?? And Pirates fans wonder why we lose so many games every year.. well, here is one small reason why.
If I’m John Russell I take Meek out of the game the second he showed his attitude. If Kerrigan and Russell – the management team representing the Pirates on the field – aren’t worrying about it, and they aren’t out backing him up, what right does this 0-3 player - who hasn’t proven anything in the game - got to showboat the ump regardless of how frustrated he is? Zero. These umps talk and every one of them will know about Meek’s actions in no time (remember my interview with an ex-ump a few years ago?).
Back to the game – Dejan said: Valdez doubled for one run, and that is technically correct. What he didn’t tell you is that there were two outs with a man on first and Valdez hit a line drive Milledge’s way that he dove for, missed, and that allowed the run to score and Valdez to reach second instead of being held to a single.
That is the third time this spring Milledge has left his feet attempting catches he couldn’t make. The first two times only cost us 1 run, today it cost us two. Had Milledge played the liner for a single, and assuming Ramus went first-to-third on the play, when Howard came up we would have played the shift more towards third since there was a runner there and Howard’s little grounder would have been the third out and the game still tied. Unfortunately, the grounder went through the shift at short and that allowed Valdez to score from second who was off on the play with two outs. And, of course, Werth would never have batted in the inning and the run he drove in wouldn’t have scored either.
So I was actually glad to see Milledge bouncing his brains off the turf today forcing a boatload of runs on Meek’s scorecard because the kid deserved it for his unprofessional behavior. It’s one thing to be a competitor, it’s another thing to play the game selfishly.
And where the hell was Russell and Kerrigan during Meek’s childish outbursts? One of them should have immediately come out of the dugout and jumped in his face. I don’t get it.. all the talk about Marine discipline in the minors and yet we allow all this “me, me, me” attitude in Pittsburgh. I just don’t get it.
It burns me up as a fan to hear this type of conduct by young players being allowed on the field. Not only are they jeopardizing their own rapport with all the umpires across the game, they are also throwing the team under the bus. Now I’m not suggesting one incident will cause five losses in a year, but the more it happens, and the more it is tolerated by field staff and the front office, the more we’re going to see strike zones shrink when we’re on the mound, strike zone enlarged when we’re in the box, and bang-bang plays go against us. I’ve talked about this for years here – it’s real.. it’s been happening.
Last thing on the subject and I’m moving on.. when I hear someone like Dejan saying things like: “Vogel quickly is becoming the star here. He just rung up Jeff Clement on a called third strike that would have made Eric Gregg blush, it was so far outside.” I respect he has an opinion, but he’s a newspaper man reporting news supposedly in an unbiased way, not a blogger who ASSuMEs things.
Dejan and the other beat reporters aren’t on the field, they haven’t got any frikin idea where that pitch is from high up in the press box. They might think they do, but they don’t. Now they very well might be 100% correct on every remark, but by putting assumptions in a newspaper or at MLB.com’s website they potentially undermine the team effort just as bad as Meek did because the umps read the local coverage as well. They have feelings.. they don’t want showboating in the press anymore than they want it on the field.. and they have senior umpires who evaluate their performance and our GM could file a grievance. Plus, it is spring training for God’s sake.
Ok, so we lost yet another one. At least we’ve won four so far.. that’s better than the Nats who haven’t even won a game yet. Wow, what an impeding battle for the #1 draft pick in 2011. Oh the drama we have to look forward to as Pirates fans. Whoopee!
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In my 2010 Sleepers and Foolers picks I said:
Foolers
3. Lastings Freaking Milledge. He might roll out of spring training looking like a new animal, but once the season starts you’ll swear he’s high all the time as you watch him floating around the outfield. Watch him awe you with attempts to make plays he shouldn’t even make, but at the end of the day you’re likely to be hugely disappointed with Mr. Milledge from day one. And so will his teammates.
Smart hustle attempting to make a great play is one thing, and learning what you can cover and can’t is perfect in spring training, but if it continues during the season bleeding runs as I suspect it is going to happen, what does John Russell do then? Think hard while also thinking about the size of left at PNC.
Church can’t cover enough ground in left, Moss either, and Jones would be a bleeding run stuck pig over there. Raynor in center and move McCutchen to left? That means you have to carry a Rule 5 guy on the bench just because you can’t count on one player. But why did we trade for him then?
I’m betting this is going to turn out to be one of the biggest stories of the year.
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The Pirates begging inning-after-inning for ticket sales during Sunday’s broadcast was a bit over the top for quite a few people, my inbox suggests.
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The Prediction Machine is the latest to put a modeling program to the test to try to predict the final records of the 2010 season. For the Pirates they suggest a 70-92 record with 0% chance they reach the playoffs. Evidently this analysis was so loved, the Wall Street Journal ran on the back page of The Personal Journal a huge 0% in red (chance of making playoffs) listing the Pirates with the Padres, Nats, and Indians.
A joke prediction website it seems, but still hilarious.
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Nice to see measurable cuts from the major league camp, and it was also nice to see quality players with upside pulled from the minor league camp today. I hope we stay focused the rest of the spring.
But I swear I heard Neal Huntington add Brad Lincoln’s name in the ‘competition’ for the fifth starter spot. Did you hear that earlier this winter? Maybe I was hearing things. Oh well, baseball is a business first and Lincoln isn’t a Huntington guy anyway. C-ya Brad.
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One of our readers opened a Buccos Facebook page last year and wishes a little promotion. He has some great photos, plans some giveaways and contests during the year, and wants you to add yourself as a fan. So drop by. Kewl logo, huh?
Also, don’t forget that I welcome guest posts so if you have something to say, feel free to e-mail your article to me.
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Good stuff here from Bobby Nutting (even though he’s probably just spending some of the revenue sharing money after creative accounting).
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Nice article on Ed Ott by the Lynchburg News-Advance.
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hahahahahahahahaha That’s nearly the entire game laughing at that report on Greg Smith’s ranking. Hat tip to BucsLover.
Related posts:
6. Pittsburgh Pirates, Greg Smith: The days of the cheap Pittsburgh Pirates are over. Greg Smith, formerly of Detroit, came aboard as Neal Huntington’s scouting director in 2008, and he’s run two excellent drafts thanks to large budgets and taking advantage of good situations in later rounds. The core of the next competitive Pirates team has been drafted by Smith, and people will start realizing his shrewd drafting in a few years.
REALLY?!?!?! WTF
Can you link to the interview with the ex-ump from years ago if possible? Sounds interesting and I feel like I missed it.
I just talked to him in the stands about how MLB umps communicate and what things set them off the most. I didn’t publish an interview because he wouldn’t go on record.
Hey, it’s Andy Seiler from MLBBonusBaby.com. Just wondering why you think the ranking of Smith is so comical.
I’m open to discussion, so I’d love to hear some ideas.
Let him know Jake, let him know…
Hey Andy.. how bizarre you picked up my needle in the haystack about your post.
> why do you think the ranking of Smith is so comical?
Many, many reasons. One, I seriously doubt he even controls the board Andy. I think it’s Huntington’s board until the 10th round or so and even then Huntington’s picks probably dictate the rest of the way. Two, the man has put together one of the most inexperienced staffs in the game at the lower levels. But again, were they his picks or Huntingtons? And three, IF he is controlling the board after the first pick, then why isn’t he selecting tools over signability outside of a few high school arms that they have taken a risk on (and even those selections lack tools for the most part). And I won’t even discuss the way his charge blew the Sano signing because that’s starting to become such a small thing compared to what we aren’t in on and could have been.
Again, if you assume Smith runs the board, then he is destroying the Pirates much like he destroyed the Tigers system when he had too much voice up there.
I could keep going and going and going but I think I’ve touched on the main points.
No tools in the backyard shed is a problem Andy. I wouldn’t say he’s the worst around the game, but dang close. Just because they are spending more money than anyone else, doesn’t mean they have made good decisions along the way.
Now go ask others IN THE GAME what they think about Greg Smith.
But I agree with you in one regard – they should be applauded for getting the Nutting’s to cough up $8M +/- per year on SOMETHING!
Thanks for the reply. I like to respond to pretty much all links to my site, good or bad, mainly because I like the discussion.
As for what people in the game think of Smith, he’s generally well-respected, and he has done a solid job of setting up a system with scouts he favors since coming in. Getting Matt Wondolowski back up to the Mid-Atlantic was important, as was hiring Rolando Pino, the Cubs’ former Florida area scout. They’re putting scouts in their natural places now, and I expect them to succeed.
As for controlling the board, I think you greatly overestimate Huntington’s control over that department. Scouting departments that are controlled too much by the general manager usually see their best scouts depart, and that’s not the case in Pittsburgh. Huntington definitely oversees the early pick, but he isn’t the decision-maker for the rest of the picks. That’s Smith’s job.
I don’t know what you mean by the statement that he’s put together one of the most inexperienced staffs. Could you clarify?
As for the tools v. signability thing, I think you’re overestimating the difference between the two in the rounds beyond the first. By taking a few players that are more signable early, they can add players that shouldn’t have been dropping in the 6th-8th round range, even beyond, which they have. It’s better to do that than to blow the money on players that are comparable to those 6th-8th round players in those early rounds, getting slot guys later. For example, would you rather have Victor Black, Brooks Pounders, and Zack Von Rosenberg or Black, Von Rosenberg, and Justin Dalles, the player that went after Von Rosenberg in the sixth? I’d prefer the first group, because Pounders is a much better prospect than Dalles, and paying for a $670K bonus baby (Pounders’ bonus) in the sixth round would net you a much lesser prospect than Pounders at that spot in sixth. I don’t know if I’m being clear enough, but I think I am.
Finally, Smith has nothing to do with Sano, and he never did. Management above him decided how much he had to work with and how much they wanted to give to Sano. They didn’t pick Tony Sanchez because they wanted Sano. They picked Tony Sanchez because they wanted to fill in with high ceiling arms that are more expensive later.
And Evan Chambers is toolsy. When he realizes that he’s the best player on the field, he’s going to explode. I don’t know if that’s going to happen, but it very well might, and saying that Smith doesn’t add tools is wrong.
You can see a definite plan taking shape in Smith’s drafts. They’re filling in the positions they need to make a strong core of hitters, then they’re filling in with tons of pitchers, hoping that a few will stick. You may think that’s irresponsible, but that’s exactly how the Braves won as many division titles as they did. They threw a bunch of young arms against the wall and saw who stuck.
Glad to keep talking about this if you like.
> As for what people in the game think of Smith, he’s generally well-respected..
Puh-lease. We have to agree to disagree on that point.
> he has done a solid job of setting up a system with scouts he favors..
Now you’re getting somewhere Andy. I won’t disagree with you that there are some good men in the ranks, but few and far between and we continue to be overmatched by almost every club at the area level. It ‘aiint easy to rebuild a club with 0-3 area guys, especially when they get shifted around the country.
> As for controlling the board, I think you greatly overestimate Huntington’s control over that department..
I’m not in the room so I don’t know.. that’s correct. But what I’ve heard suggests it is Neal Huntington’s board much deeper than you realize.
> usually see their best scouts depart..
at the end of 2010 will be the first chance since some came in on three-year gigs tied to Huntington, although we pay better than most clubs do and some of these guys ‘aint gonna leave till they are booted anyway. That being said, some have left (Shaffer, Merriweather to name some), others reassigned (Morris, Wondolowski, others), Delli Carri, while not demoted, is now in an admin role, the four best spots for coverage (FL, TX, CA, and NC) are somewhat raw.. should I keep going?
> For example, would you rather have Victor Black, Brooks Pounders, and Zack Von Rosenberg or Black, Von Rosenberg, and Justin Dalles..
Neither.. I’d rather have spent to put Purke in my system. None of the arms you mentioned excite me that much Andy. Not one of them. ZVR might have the upside, Pounders might be the guy who eventually makes it.. but none of them are difference makers down the road. Purke might have been, as an example.
> Finally, Smith has nothing to do with Sano..
Gayo works for Smith. Sano isn’t here because of Gayo knocking on Sano’s home door, not because of the money difference. So who is ultimately responsible at the end of the day?
> They picked Tony Sanchez because they..
wanted to deal Doumit and needed a fast track catcher to fill the void in the system. Who is kidding who?
> And Evan Chambers is toolsy
I like Chambers and talked about him last year. Nice third round pick that was hard to mess up on.
> You can see a definite plan taking shape in Smith’s drafts.
I’m sorry, we’ll have to agree to disagree on this too.
> but that’s exactly how the Braves won as many division titles as they did.
LOL.. the Braves took pitchers with tools! Plus, they have a player development system to die for while we have a Marine Corps battleground. Apples vs Oranges.
Nice chat.
Nice chat that I am almost sure is not far from finished. He already served you once Jake, are you a glutten for punishment?
Both jake and andy raised solid points. Pirates have missed out several times to add talent to the system just recently- 1. Taking Raynor with the rule 5 pick , 2. Missing out Sano which will hurt them down the road , 3. Hechevarria why wasnt he signed if the Pirates want to make a splash with this state of the art dominican facility you need to have the dominican facility generate you some 3 to 5 star talent and Hechevarria is that guy. Pirates dont have a SS who can hit and field in the system that have a bunch of broken parts one can do this and one can do that. I did like Huntington and Smith getting arms in the system they might be more quantity over quality issue there’s some kids who have a future(colton cain, ZVR, pounders, black just to name a few) if we can develop them a big IF.
Both do make good points, but I have to lean towards Andy through this initial exchange mostly because we all know how biased Jake is.
I have read a lot of misleading (and sometimes flat out incorrect) “facts” on this board in the past, so it’s really hard to gauge who is “right” about Smith being respected in the game or the quality of the scouting department or how much Huntington has on draft day.
While at this game I want to know the following: Why Delwyn Young is playing second and getting at bats after stopping mid way between first and second on a pop up in the infield to the second baseman. The play earlier when the Phillies 3rd baseman tweaked his knee, Delwyn nearly stopped after popping up to 3rd base. He was almost thrown out by Rollins after Placido hurt himself and missed the pop up. We can bitch about the umps, but the Buccos looked awful. Heading to Bradenton again today, hoping that its not another awful display by out fair Buccos. The effort is horrible.
I think both Jake and Andy are partly right. Jake has just been jaded by being around this losing organization for so long, like many of us. It’s hard to cast an objective eye when there’s so much that has gone wrong with this organization for the past two decades. The drafting has been much, much better than it was under the god awful Creech, who should come in at #31 on that list just for the lasting damage he’s done to this franchise.
However, I think that Andy is likely to have a more objective, outsiders point of view on the system we have in place. The draft strategy has been good so far, or so it seems. I mean, where would we be had the Pirates ponied up to sign Sheppers back in 08? I’m guessing that one pick may have vaulted us a few spots in the minor league rankings.
However, on the converse side, and perhaps more intriguing given what transpired at the signing deadline…where would we be had Pedro Alvarez’s contract been negated for the MLB extension? Man, you look at the system and without Alvarez…they might have been right at the bottom of the minor league rankings.
Ah…the good, old, woulda-coulda-shoulda Pittsburgh Pirates. How bout that 2013 lineup of McCutchen, Wieters, Alvarez, Sano, Tabata…with Scheppers, Matzek/Purke, Lincoln…and sadly, that lineup could have been had for probably $10-$15 million more than what we spent.