The rumor running wild among Pirates fans is that they believe one beat reporter’s story that the Pirates intend to make an investment in starting pitching this winter. Jake’s take on all that is that the Pirates will spend money on starting pitching outside the organization that will make any difference at all when cows can fly, and the Pirates will be able to actually sign a free-agent starting pitcher of any consequence when cows can fly backwards.
Stay focused people – this is a Nutting enterprise. Not only that but it’s a ship with no rudder floundering at the bottom of the ocean. Even if they did add a $20MM top of the order starter like Cliff Lee, how many more wins do you think they will rack up with Lee considering the roster they currently have?
5?
If they are lucky.
10?
If Lee throws a complete game shutout one-in-three games, yeah.
Bob Nutting isn’t going to authorize spending any considerable amount of money on real talent because it would be a complete waste of money. There is no defense to support that pitcher, there is no offense to support the pitcher, and all that pitcher would do is bring us from a 110 loss team to a 100 loss team. Plus tell me, what pitcher in their right mind would want to pitch for this organization right now even if they were paid stupid money?
None. Zero. Zilch.
The only possible way this organization can make a significant investment in pitching — over the winter — is to sign free agents because no GM in his right mind deals pitching during the winter with any value without a sizeable return in prospects. Even clubs who need cash want impact prospects.
Now look through our organization and tell me, who exactly are we going to give up in prospects to get a reasonable pitcher or two?
LOL.. keep dreaming. You’re falling back into the same hope machine trap the Pirates love to put you in.. spin, rinse, repeat, spin, rinse, repeat..
Funny how these kind of rumors always start with beat reporters.
Now is it possible the Pirates might make a trade during the winter which might bring a reasonable pitcher to Pittsburgh? Sure, but we’ll have to give up talent to get this player so, who goes? McCutchen? We don’t have anyone on the roster with any real value anyone wants outside of Alvarez, Cutch and, perhaps, Maholm.
So I’m here to tell you that the only possible way the Pirates will make a sizeable investment in starting pitching will be if they pony up for the talent they currently have. That means adding a couple of years to Maholm’s contract at free agent value, giving Zach Duke a 2+ year deal for some insane amount of money, and so on. And maybe they sign some lower-tier starter in the $5MM range on top of that, who knows. But don’t look outside the organization unless we make a trade, and that is more likely to happen this July than it is next winter.
Stay focused.. and don’t believe everything beat reporters tell you because sometimes they say things in a way that make you think one thing, but the real way it’s likely to go down is completely different that you might expect. And don’t forget that the Pirates have to start generating some kind of a hope machine for the 2011 season because their goal is to sell tickets, sell corporate sponsorships, and the like. These guys are pros at hope machine spin.
Not spending money on meaningful acquisitions.
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Did you know that Pirates management has dubbed a select group the Fab-5 as the future “core” of this organization?
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I touched on a subject yesterday which opened a can of worms and I need to close that can. Quite a few of you picked up that I mentioned Lincoln’s promotion was generally handled without any input from some of the better evaluators or field staff and that concerned you.
It should.
One thing that has changed under this new regime is that promotions from the minors to Pittsburgh are regularly made without the input of field staff. One person I spoke to around the game told me it’s the only organization he’s aware of that often does this and it’s rather shocking it happens this way. I contacted a couple of others around the game and found out other GM’s regularly consult with their field staff, their evaluators, and their consultants before making a move.
Not Neal Huntington.
Just put that tidbit in your notebook for later retrieval because later in the year you’re going to need to bring it back to the surface.
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Bryan Morris with a sore elbow? Cory Giger, I believe it was, mentioned a year ago that, according to Morris, his mechanics were putting too much pressure on his elbow and making him sore. So the fact we heard his mechanics are all out of whack again and he’s complaining about a sore elbow, only makes sense. I stated the other day I felt the Pirates needed to just go ahead and shut him down completely because I had heard he was complaining again and there was no reason to take a chance with him. 2011 is another year.
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My article yesterday on our suffering defense also brought out a barrage of readership e-mail asking about Perry Hill. Most of you wanted to know if he’ll be back. I haven’t the faintest idea. I had heard months ago that Nolan Ryan had an interest in him over the winter so I assume after the season when Hill can move on, Ryan will be all over him. Hill’s more suited for the NL but since he lives so close to Arlington, I have to believe Chuck Greenberg and Nolan Ryan will be interested in him. The Pirates need his services more than any club in the game, but…
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Since some of you have been asking, yes, I sold Bucs Prospects to a pro scouting group sometime back and they plan an announcement in the near future over there.
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So we’re off to play the Rockies who have lost six in a row and are 2-8 last ten. That’s about as far as the good feeling will go because this is a blowout series on paper. For instance let’s just look at Tuesday’s game.. Duke has won just 6 of his last 31 road starts against teams with a winning record, the Pirates have won just once in their last ten at Coors, one-third+ of our starting position players haven’t played at that altitude before, I don’t even know when the last time the Pirates won a game after a day off was, and the Rockies have only lost 6 times in De La Rosa’s last 26 starts despite him having an 8+ ERA last three (coming back from a finger injury).
Starting Duke at Coors is like adding lighter fluid to a fire, starting Ohlendorf there will be like adding nitro, and starting Karstens there will be like adding a nuclear bomb.
The Rockies may have limped home from a long road trip, but don’t think for a second we have anything to keep them down. It could be a very ugly series leading up to another very ugly series in St. Louis.
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Nothing much happening on the trade front.. lots and lots of rumors but nothing to sink your teeth into yet. I continue to hear we’re targeting a pitcher but dang if I can find out who it is which leads me to believe it won’t be much to get excited over.
We also might be shipping a pitcher out depending on a start in the Rockies series. I’ll know more by Thursday.
Related posts:
Dj Carrasco and Wil Ledezma will see lots of long work this rockies series.
For all the Bucco fans who thought Donnelly added something to the team i see teams are lining up for him (lol) here you go – Joe Capozzi of the Palm Beach Post hears (via Twitter) that the Marlins have zero interest in Brendan Donnelly. The recently-DFA’d righty pitched well for the Marlins last year.
Lots of what you wrote is true and to the point. However, I do believe that Meek and Hanrahan, and possibly DJ are tradeable pieces.
One of myfavorite baseball things is/are trade rumors. The bungling trades by NH would remove any hope that the Pirates would receive anything better than what they deal. Hopefully, the Bucs stop here and go no further on the trade front.
There is no hope for the future. Even the hirings of a competent GM and field manager won’t pull the Pirates anywhere near .500.
“There is no hope for the future. Even the hirings of a competent GM and field manager won’t pull the Pirates anywhere near .500″
Seriously?
I beg to differ. We just need a RH power bat, top of the rotation pitching, and solid fundamentals to turn this thing around swiftly. After this season, I’d sell the farm to KC for Billy Butler and Zach Grienke (who’s havin a tough year). Doumit and Duke needs to be released. They are draggin this “Fab-5″ down. Duke is not worth 5 million when some random NRI can duplicate that same performance (or even improve it). We can at least find a serviceable catcher for a year til Tony Sanchise (rhymes with franchise….get it?) comes to the Burgh in ’12. Russell needs fired. The longer he stays the worse off they are. Fire everybody except Varsho and Searage. Thrilledge/Jones would make for a great platoon in RF. If teams aint gonna give us a B prospect each for Dotel or Maholm keep em for 2011. Let’s not forget that Cutch, Tabata, Pedro, and even Walker will improve as they get older. The Pirates will turn this around.
Quit laughing!
At least we’re not Baltimore who has to fight with the Yanks, Sox, and now the Rays. They’re the ones who will never see .500 this decade.
very good points.
What exactly did Huntington mean when he said Lincoln lost 4-5 miles on his fastball because of a mechanical adjustment made at the big league level? Isn’t this a direct reflection on Kerrigan? Why isn’t the media questioning him on that? Kerrigan is another in a long list of losers that this organization employs. Always good to see that Strange, Bannister, and Vuckovich still give their worthless input as well. Sad so very sad.
Jake
Nutting enterprise is a lot better than the McClachy enterprise or even stuper Mario cauld ever be .
“Since some of you have been asking, yes, I sold Bucs Prospects to a pro scouting group sometime back and they plan an announcement in the near future over there.”
Double dipping?
double dipping? LOL, not really. It was just a fan concept I began which took off and the group taking it over has significantly larger plans. Pirates fans will get 5x the coverage in the end.
Sorry for getting this started, Jake. It was intended as a little bit of (dark) humor. Your response was quite polite. I appreciate it. By the way, I read Anup’s articles all the time.
Another topic – In your opinion what are the chances (in percentages) of the following getting traded by Saturday:
Maholm -
Hanrahan –
Meek -
Jones –
Duke –
In my opinion, the top three would fetch the best players… err…, pardon me, if the Pirates would have a competent GM.
Thanks.
Maholm-25%, Hanrahan – 0%, Meek – 0%, Garrett Jones- 50%(al west, and not for Jack Wilson jr in Maicer Izturis),Zach Duke – 0% (unless you pay the rest of his 4.3 mil salary and are willing to take a bag of balls)
as of right this second based on what we’re asking in return, 0% for all of them. Hanrahan probably gets the most play down the wire.
So…you took donations from people to get it started….then you sold it at a profit. I wonder how people should feel about that.
Puh-lease.. I spent 8 times+ the amount donated combined with what I received in the sale for content which goes through September. I don’t want to speak for the new group but there will be an end of season prospect guide done by the scouts and I arranged in the sale to be sure everyone who donated over $20 will get a copy. I suspect they will just give them away to all those who donated but don’t hold me to that.
I’ll let Jake reply for certain, but I surmise that every body who donated got their money back or will have some sort of subscription to the new site. Also, he may not have made a profit or got any cash back but just traded site to scouts instead of paying them for articles, expenses.
What about the discussions of anonymous sources that NH talked about a week or two again on radio show. Doesn’t he know that most sources in baseball articles about rumors are anonymous?
NH has probably been an anonymous source many times in his front office career. HE needs to be less sensitive to press.
> Also, he may not have made a profit or got any cash back but just traded site to scouts instead of paying them for articles, expenses.
I lost a ton, ton, ton.
No, all the scouts are paid for their work.. there was no trading. And none of the scouts at Bucs Prospects were involved in the sale.. they will continue writing and being paid thru October including instructionals. They still have a third deep look at our system to go yet from SS up so there’s a ton more content still coming for us.
Jake, you are over reacting to the starting pitching statement about next year. First, didn’t the beat reporter make the statement in an online chat? Those chats are more conversational and less fact based reports.
Second, an investment does not mean elite pitching.
I took the statment to mean getting mid-level talent at market value as opposed to below market value contracts the team normally tries to do. Usually they end up relying on under achieving prospects.
I do totally agree that getting a free pitcher to choose to play for this team will be hard
> First, didn’t the beat reporter make the statement in an online chat?
yes, but he’s the Pirates beat reporter for a newspaper so I took his statement to be a fact.
> Second, an investment does not mean elite pitching.
agreed. But based on the e-mails I was getting I felt it was best to eliminate any of those thoughts.
> I took the statment to mean getting mid-level talent at market value
I don’t think they can GET anyone of any consequence, and that was my point. In other words, I think Dejan’s words were nothing more than a PR plug offered by the org with the end result being that they will HAVE to spend on the arms they have because of the inability to get anything better. But that’s my guess.
BuccoMike:
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post. I hope Jake does too.
I find it interesting your highest percentage goes to Garret Jones. I also find it most interesting you don’t have him going to the Angels for Izturis (spelling?). That’s the most consistent rumor out there. Insider information???
P.S. – I left Dotel and Carrosco out of the question, because I see both as 90% chances of getting traded by Saturday. Almost a given…
Well Mr. Pirate in Montana i heard a lot that Izturis for Jones talk, which is totally nuts why the Pirates would trade their top run producer for a punch and judy poormans version of Jack Wilson. Garrett Jones to Texas is possible cause Garrett has such a friendly type contract the Pirates should be looking to move him to Texas for one or two of those prospects they have- Jones might get you a Engel Beltre CF, and maybe a Jose Felix C or Matthew Lawson 2b.
Good resopnse, BuccoMike. Thanks.
Never thought about the Rangers. However it makes sense as they are looking for players, without the big contracts.
Dotel i see as a almost given to be dealt maybe the yankees with their bullpen problems (middle Relief) . Now Carrasco i could see in the 30 to 35% area cause the Pirates need his arm in long relief he might even start a game or two near years end. Carrasco has that rubber arm like Torres in which the Pirates like. The Bonus system in which Carrasco gets extra money favors the buccos since it’s on the points system.
I wonder if the pitcher we are trying to ge is Aaron Cook from the Rockies. A blurb on mlbtraderumors page about how they are quietly trying to gauge interest in him. Wonder what they want. I too could see Jones dealt especially if they are thinking of moving Alvarez to first. Dotel-90% Jones-about 20%Maholm 25% to be traded.
Bill
> I wonder if the pitcher we are trying to ge is Aaron Cook from the Rockies
I intially thought it was Edwin Jackson, although it’s hard for me to see the D’backs and Huntington getting anything done without NH getting reamed. I think clubs are shying away from Cook because there’s a feeling he’s been pitching with a shoulder problem. More likely it will end up being someone like Nate Robertson who was just released by the Marlins. LOL
Dont be surprised if the Pirates look to sign Nate Robertson they could use another arm in the rotation even though Robertson is mediocre at best they might see him as a cheap innings eater or if they deal Carrasco they could use Robertson in his slot.
McClouth to the minors. I still like Locke as the hidden gem of the deal and Hernandez as a 4th OFer.
Bill
Locke had 9k allowed 2er in his no dec over 6ip yesterday
Jake, what is your opinion on HUGE 1B Calvin Anderson at Bradenton? Does he have any projectable tools? or is he just a poor man’s Brad Eldred? Also, what would it take for the bucs to pry away local boy Devin Mesoraco from the Reds? He’s having a monster year and wasnt even considered a top prospect at the beginning of the season
> what is your opinion on HUGE 1B Calvin Anderson
I haven’t seen him yet Al.. but you should have a report on him over the next week at Bucs Prospects dot com.
> what would it take for the bucs to pry away local boy Devin Mesoraco from the Reds?
I guess the best way to answer that is to say prospects aren’t cheap anymore, especially when traded within the division. I don’t know what it would take to be honest.
Carlos Zambrano anyone?
A miracle happens at Coors field- Zach Duke pitches a QS, Buccos win 4-2. Some decent defense tonight the double relay to get spilborghs at 3rd in the 7th one of those plays neil walker had a good defensive play. Hanrahan hit 99 on the coors gun one time to end the 8th, meek hit 98 3 times their sliders didnt work real well tonight but the heat was a blazin.